Hi Ending CreditsQuote:
Originally Posted by Ending Credits
Are you intending to start an EV conversion/construction company when you leave uni?
It sounds like you know your stuff ;-)
Can I pre-order my 200Kg carbon fiber chassis Tesla beating super "EV" now?
Graham
Graham
It's been a bit frustrating seeing this thread and not being able to post (posting permissions not set correctly), but that's sorted now.
Between 1996 and 1999 I was involved with a a Porsche 914 EV race car. I used to spend 5 weeks each year in California preparing and developing the car before taking it down to the Firebird circuit in Arizona for the racing. One year we were sharing track practice time with the National Auto Sports Association and were able to keep pace (or even pass) 2 series BMWs, RX7s and other similar spec cars. The real surprise to those guys was when the found out how much power we had. Given that we had to budget our energy for a 25 lap race, we were limited to just 35kw peak. A Beat by comparison is 47Kw, but that is of course a peak figure. We had the car up to 135mph (gps figure) on one of the runways at Alameada Airforce base (still with the power restricted to around 80Kw). On the street we estimated the range to be easily over 80 miles, not bad on a lead acid battery.
This was my own car project http://www.compton.vispa.com/scirocc...icco-frame.htm which was probably the fastest road legal EV in the UK at the time. I had an unofficial time around Anglesea circuit of 1 minute 17 in heavy rain and carrying passengers.
The last time we ran the 914, the driver and sponsor was Richard Hatfield. He later quit from the financial industry and these days runs http://www.lightningmotorcycle.com/ They were recently the fastest motorcycle up Pikes Peak hillclimb.
Just to say, an ideal car for an EV project car would be an Audi A2.
Light and the rear floorplan is just crying out to have batteries fitted - I think they even had that at the back of there mind when they designed it many moons ago...............
Quote:
Originally Posted by eat808
Hi Graham, I'm actually in a similar position to you where before I started on this project I knew very little about anything to do with HV systems. The EV in question is actually our car for Formula Student at Durham for which I used to be head of electronics (which doesn't actually include any of the powertrain stuff). We're a very new team although we've just merged with the Durham Solar Car team who have a lot more expertise so hopefully we'll make a bit more progress next year as we've been stagnating recently. We don't have a blog per-se although it's something we've been talking about. I'll make sure to take a look at those forums as I bet there's some great info hidden away there. You might want to take a look at some of the other teams as there is some really cool stuff such as in-hub motors (great for regen-braking).Quote:
Originally Posted by eat808
We were thinking about Agni motors although I can't tell you what our verdict was as we seem to be in a bit of a mess regarding powertrain due to previous people being a bit disorganised (although the new powertrain team is pretty good and I work with them fairly often). I think we thought we might be able to get the YASA a lot cheaper originally; we have such a small budget atm so we're relying on getting things sponsored.
I'll pass on some of the stuff you've mentioned to the team, particularly the part about fixed-magnet motors as we may be able to manufacture some stuff in-house.
I'm at Durham sudying mathematics. Sussex is actually one of my brother's top choices (he wants to do CS); I gather he and my parents all really liked the uni.
I'll mention the EV car constuction company to my housemate as it's something I think he might be interested in. :D
Yes, the VR-4 looks to be a very expensive car even just by the service costs! I only do 2000miles a year and the Beat is cheap-as-chips to run so it shouldn't be too bad. Looking forwards to something with a bit of power for a change!
35kw is less than half of what we're limited to (although we'll probably self impose a similar sort of figure). Must have been a huge task trying to keep the car reasonably light; it's hard enough now even with three times the energy density of Lithium Chemistry batteries!Quote:
Originally Posted by Moriniman
It would appear that your Beat won't be the first EV Kei car. This was takeen at the Mazda factory about 5 years ago but I've no further info about it I'm afraid.
Attachment 2277
It looks like it's using Sky Energy Lithium cells.Quote:
Originally Posted by fxdlidon
Hi MorinimanQuote:
Originally Posted by Moriniman
Very interesting website thanks, are you still driving the scirocco?
Graham
Hi HotdogQuote:
Originally Posted by hotdog
Weight wise the A2 would be a good candidate, But you have to love a car before you can convert it into an EV and the Audi A2 just aint got the love for me, Looks like every other car on the road, but I am sure if it was pimped to the max it might make me smile ;-)
Now the Audi R8 on the other hand :-) but then I dont think I could bring myself to butcher one of those (and it would be butchery on such a work of art) shame they done make an EV version to compete with the Tesla, I would buy one (after I had won the lottery of course!)
Graham
Hi Ending CreditsQuote:
Originally Posted by Ending Credits
The formula student was won by an EV this year! I mentioned this to our Formula student course leader and was told that Sussex University prefers Internal combustion as there is more employment opportunities for students in that industry, (Short sighted in my opinion, but hey ho! what do I know)
you may also want to look at the newest NMC (Nickel Magnesium Cobalt) batteries, they are expensive but have 6000 recharge cycles, that’s well over 15 years of constant use! they are twice the price of LIPO and don’t give 20C discharge rates (10C which is still great) but seeing as LIPO only give 300 recharge cycles it makes sense if you want the car (or batteries) to last, I guess you would be moving the battery pack from car to car each year as new students arrive and old ones leave.
I recently discovered that our University dumps tubular steel racing car frames every year, as part of the formula student course is to build the frame, I will be speaking to the guy who is charged with disposal of these as I can see a great remarketing opportunity here (EV racecars are go!)
Agni's are not yet any good for high performance cars as they just dont last long enough and require constant servicing, You would need at least 2 to get any sort of performance.
AC motors are too expensive, the controllers are extortionate.
Regen is a bit of a misnomer to be honest even at best you will only get 15% back and you need AC motors & controllers for this, you could save a lot more than 15% by losing weight or improving aerodynamics. (preferably both)
I have also been advised that in hub motors don’t really make sense either as they are positioned in the worst place to get maximum damage (how many times do wheels get curbed for example) if each wheel costs the price of a motor they aren’t going to be cheap and with no gearing from motor to wheel the RPM range is not efficient either, plus you would need 4 motors 4 controllers etc.
It’s funny because these are all exactly the sort of questions I had to approach when building mine, My best advice is speak to someone who has already built an EV (preferably several) as they will have already made all the (expensive) mistakes you don’t want to.
I was very lucky to find an EV expert locally to me and he has proved to be a great source of information and a great filter for the huge amounts of disinformation you find around the EV scene.
The three that make me laugh most are:-
Solar panels on the roof. (what to run the clock!)
Alternators to charge you batteries (yeah Physics 101 required here)
Wind turbines on the car to harvest the wind you make as you go along. (yeah Physics 101 required here also)
Amazing how little grasp some people have of basic physics!
The forums are absolutely invaluable, there is no way I would have been able to build mine without them.
If I were running the course I would probably go for the simple approach, Large DC series wound high voltage motor 200V+, as many LIPO batteries as you could afford (or LIFEPO's if you want safety, only 3C discharge however, no good for performance) or get someone to sponsor the NMC batteries over 15 years, and go for tried and tested controllers such as the Evnetics ones or the Warp 9, that way your students can focus on aerodynamics and weight as that's what will win races. also get the open source charger from EMW it’s a great project for the students and a bloody good charger to boot an off the shelf equivalent can cost upwards of £3000, twice the price of the kit, plus you don’t have to buy the whole kit you can just get the PCB's and let the students do the rest, if you intend to race the car you will need to fast charge. (also most race tracks don’t have EV fast charging capabilities yet 32Amp @ 7KW+, this needs to change)
Plus simple is good when you are dealing with HV you don't want to be servicing a 300V battery pack on the trackside in the rain! ;-) (to be honest you dont want to ever be opening the battery pack once built other than to change a dead cell and rarely you would hope, and this would be done in a safe workshop environment by an experienced HV battery builder)
I built my own but only after a very good lesson by an expert.
Get a blog going I will subscribe (although I have no idea how you get followers I have 1, My partner, and she only signed up to test it was working!)
Good luck
Graham
Hi FxdlidonQuote:
Originally Posted by fxdlidon
Do you happen to know what it is, i.e. what Model of Mazda?
Where did you get the photo?
Graham
Hi Graham,
It's a Mazda (Autozam) AZ-1 (the 'A' in the ABC of Kei cars). Pic was on one of the japanese forums but I can't find out anything else about the project.
Don
Here is another kei-car electric that apparently went into limited production. I saw one on display a few years ago. The Mitsu kei car is the only 5-passenger kei that is much different from all the others around and has a large underfloor area for batteries where the motor would normally be. As a gasoline car it was only sold in Japan, and from what I see on the streets, maybe was not all that popular because of weird appearance.... but cool IMHO!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_i-MiEV
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/10/26/2...-drive-review/
No, I sold the car on a few years ago. The problem wasn't range as such, my commute to work is only 10 miles and I had a parking space with power outlet. However, the traffic on the M1 back then would frequently mean my journey to work taking well over an hour. On one occasion it too four hours! In cold weather I simply couldn't heat the car for that long and the cost of running multiple vehicles was too high. I built another car (whilst I still had the Scirocco), converting one of the very last rear engined Skodas ever imported, a 135i Rapid. They only weigh about 100Kg more than a Beat! The materials may be cheap and the finish basic, but they're really well engineered. Someone came along and offered me sensible money for the 90% completed project, so that got sold too.Quote:
Originally Posted by eat808
Since then I've done just one electric project. I built a motorcycle based on a Cagiva Freccia. Again someone came along and offered my money!
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/vie...reccia#p168315
At one point it was ridden by Carl Foggerty.
Actually, I have done one other EV project. I was a team expert on Scrapheap Challenge Series 8.
Hi SteveinjapanQuote:
Originally Posted by steveinjapan
Yes this is the great IMIEV in fact this cool looking car almost convinced me to buy it as they are now on sale here in the UK and have been for a year or so.
I so nearly bought one but when I looked at the cost vs. the specs I decided I could build a better faster EV for a lot less cash. (reforming petrol head here!)
I will be watching the second hand EV market closely as I have heard rumours that EV's won’t hold any resale value at all because of the need to replace the battery pack completely after purchasing a second hand EV.
If true I could be picking up perfect upgradable EV shells for next to nothing in a few years :-)
Maybe the IMIEV was limited production but here in the UK I think they have sold plenty in fact I have just found this http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html#nabble-td4664393 "IMIEV sold out in the UK" So very popular here in the UK in fact it was its looks that nearly sold it to me, and I would love to get my hands on one but I don’t have 24K to spare :-(
Also there seems to be a slight conspiracy going on in the insurance world it seems that the only insurers willing to insure EV's are classic car or specialist insurers, I discovered this just a couple of weeks ago when I came to insure mine, almost all of the standard insurance companies gave the same response "sorry our underwriters have pulled out of insuring EV's" on further digging we got one of them to admit that "due to the large number of claims in London over the last year we are no longer insuring EV's"
Still Adrian Flux gave me a deal I could not refuse :-)
Graham
Wow!Quote:
Originally Posted by fxdlidon
I want one of those :-) Gull wings an all! rare as rocking horse S#!t here in the UK, I would love to get my hands on one, also known as the Suzuki Cara. (ebay & general web search came back blank for one to buy)
Why is it that the Japanese make the coolest looking cars in the world? and then make so few of them that you cant get one for love nor money :-(
Graham
Graham, if it's any consolation, I have only seen one AZ-1 here in Okinawa. A lady who had no idea about how special it is had gotten it from a relative. I met her in a supermarket carpark where she was filling it up with beer cartons! Seems like I read only a few thousand were ever made.
I did actually go looking for AZ-1s.
They are out there and I found quite a few on Japanese dealers sites, but you're looking at around £6000, plus shipping, plus duty, plus VAT.
I do know of a low mileage immaculate car for sale in the UK. Don't ask for the price without the use of Oxygen.
I got my AZ-1 about 6 years ago when the exchange rate was a lot moe favourable - £6500 on the road in the UK with 17K kms on it, there aren't any bargins like that about anymore.
There were just over 4500 made, 500 of those were badged Suzuki and called the Cara. I think there are still about 2000 left, mostly in Japan
We did have 3 at the annual KKITP meet a few years ago and there were 2 of us there this year - not bad considering there are only 5 in the uk :)
Sighted one of these today. I suppose you Brits would say it is an updated milk float, but100-km range and enormous cargo capacity makes sense for deliveries, etc.. And it is probably a much more capable vehicle than the petrol version, with all that torque.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...9_demo-car.jpg