Insurance erm....scam?

[Paul w]

Is this legal?

I 'sell' my car to my sister

I then borrow the car from her and drive it 3rd party on my insurance. I dont need to insure it then, but does she?


Comments?

I was about to buy 3rd party F&T insurance for it, as its probably worth more as bits anyway!

PW

[john m]

I asked the same question and was told that my insurance would only cover me third party on the beat IF and only if the beat was fully insured by the other person.

[Paul w]

Hmmmm

It seems a bit strange that nothing like that is mentioned on the policy though. It just says i am covered if the car is not owned by me and i have their permission to drive it.

I do get the feeling that this seems to simple though!

PW

[john m]

My policy was/is equally confusing so I rang my broker and he explained it to me. It might be worth your time to do the same, I wouldnt risk trying this unless you are 100% sure.

[Steve_M]

If the car has no insurance policy on it, you cant get road tax, not unless its reg is on a policy.

insurance companies are wise to miss represneted claims, e.g main driver is not as listed on policy etc.

just except it, you are going to get ripped off for insurance no matter what !!!

[Wh1teLeopard]

I work for a company who has to deal with insurance companies, accidents and innocent people all the time... and I still don't get how they work hee hee

I would do as suggested above and ring and ask... and always get whatever they say in writting, or at least their name, so if it does come back on you, you can say 'no wait, i spoke to .... who gave me a written statement saying I was covered'

[adrianp]

A guy had something simlar on the FTO forum...

He borrowed a mates motorbike (He had a bike licence too) and rode it using his cars insurance but when he was stopped he got done for not having insurance because a bike isn't classed as a motor vehicle according to his insurance company...!!!

They'll try anything to get out of paying so it's not worth the risk normally...

Ady.

[tinytim]

As Steve says, if there is no policy on the vehicle you won't be able to tax it this is in fact not true BUT very difficult to get around.
From another forum

The 1988 RTA is clear on insurance, and you will find under the VED law that you only have to prove the driver is insured to drive the particular vehicle and it only talks about “The Applicant” not the registered keeper when applying for VED!

There is no law that says the owner and /or registered keeper has to be a driver let alone insure the vehicle, only that a person must not allow a vehicle to be driven on the road with out valid insurance

I put a DLVA adviser into a corner and she agreed that if you have a letter from the Registered Keeper and / or Owner saying you have permission to drive the vehicle and you can give written proof that you are insured to drive it bob's your uncle!

You would have to go to your local VLO to argue the toss and get the VED.

The problem would occur when the vehicle is parked believe it or not, as it would then not be insured!

[barkley]

switch to a motor trader policy and it covers anything up to 7.5 ton fully comp mine is £1460 weather the car ,van , or lorry belongs to me or not .. from a mini to a porsche

[tinytim]

Hmmmm £1460 !!!!!

The idea was to save money me thinks

[jurek]

Hi you will find that the T/P insurance only comes into play if the car has been insured for at least T/P risk because if you park the car in the street and go and buy a paper, then you will the car is not insured, as who would be liable?
Most car insurance will not use the words car but vehicle and thus you get T/P cover for any vichicle you are licenced to drive.
(its me job !!)

[Adam]

My insurance covers me 3rd party while driving any insured vehicle.

But I know that some people have a policy which covers them to drive "Any motor vehicle as long as it doesn't belong to them or is not stolen or is not a rental". Which would suggest that the car does not need to be insured.

If there is no one in the car then the car is not insured, but then again with third party the car is never insured anyway.

[jurek]

BUT.....if the hand brack fails and the car rolles down a hill killing some one !!!

The injured could claim of the MIB, it would cover T/P personal injury but would not cover damage to property. You the driver would be personally liable, but what if you could not afford to pay the compensation.

What would work best for you ....is the Polish system where you pay Road Fund Licence which includes a contribution to minimal insurance cover.......

[Midship]

I have this clause on my policy and I regularly drive other cars registered in other people names.

According to my policy im insured to drive “Any car or (motor Cycle), provided such vehicle dose not belong to him and is not hired to him under a hire Purchase Agreement or under a contract of lease of hire”

“Provided such vehicle has not been stolen or obtained by violence or taken without the consent of the owner or other lawful authority”

According to the terms and conditions of my policy, I have FULL third party insurance when driving such a vehicle. So i am meeting the requirment of the Road Traffic Act.

So basically you can register the car in someone else’s name so that they are the owner and legally be insured to drive it.

Road tax is necessary to drive the car in a public place, so in order to tax the car you must have an insurance cert. One way of getting a cert is to do a permanent transfer onto the car get the cert, get a year of tax. Transfer your insurance back and off you go.

In Ireland once you don’t let you tax run out you can renew online, which means that you don’t have to produce a cert, just input a number.

A friend of mine actually works for a very well known insurance company, he owns a Fiat Sciento and has it insured, like me he has the DOCH condition on the policy and drives an MR2 Turbo that’s registered in his mother name!! Hes been asked to produce his insurance to the Garda (police) before and they didn’t have a problem with it.

I too have gone through check points and have been asked why the insurance disc has a different registration number on it, to the car im driving. I explain that it not my car(if they want they can check that on their computer) show a copy of my insurance cert with I carry around with me clearly stating my DOCH privileges and off I go.

A word of warning though different companies have different policies regarding DOCH some require you to be 25 some require the other car to be insured etc so read your policy very carefully and seek clarification from the insurance company if you are in any doubt whatsoever.

Nice little loophole, only draw back is if the car is stolen you have no comeback. You cannot insure it for fire and theft as it goes against one of the main principle of insurance- insurable interest. i.e. cannot have an insurable interest unless you are the owner of the car.

[jurek]

The law is so different to that in the UK..... Thats the EEC for you.

[Sharpen]

hi everyone, as my other half works for an insurance company i ran the above posts past her and basically, she says if your policy allows you to drive someone elses vehicle then:
a) it is for occasional purposes only-if its regular use then you must become a 'named' driver on the registered keepers policy

b) the vehical MUST be insured by its registered keeper before you can drive it.

the practice of using a friends/relatives car as your main vehicle in a way you've described in your posts ie using their car on your own insurance is known in the insurance industry as 'Fronting' which insurance companies are apparantly wise to. (hard to prove you may say but believe me these companies employ investigators who for example in a fatal accident WILL do a thorough job)

Not only could you find yourself uninsured but it is also fraud.

So my advise is to get yourself added as a named driver on the registered keepers policy.

[LawrenceHarding]

I understand that although you might be covered when driving the cover stops when you get out. If the registered owner does not have his own policy he would then be open to prosecution for using a vehicle without insurace if it is on the road at the time. Do you really want to drop a friend or relative in the doo doos this way?