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Thread: Clutch judder

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Japan
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    412

    Clutch judder

    I think you call it something else over in Britain --- basically non-smooth partial engagement of the clutch. I've noticed it getting worse recently, mainly in reverse but also starting off in first gear. In conventional RWD cars I know it can be due to bad motor or transmission mounts, driveline supports, etc. but I'm not very familiar with transaxles. Where should I be looking for the cause of this problem? It's not anything more than an annoyance when backing out of my carport but I know it shouldn't be doing it.


    Past Hondas:
    1960 125cc Honda Benly CB92R
    1964 305cc Super Hawk CB77, the only vehicle I have ever bought new in my life!
    Honda CB160, roadraced as 175cc 1967-1970.
    Honda Lawnmower, bought used in 2003, caught fire and melted in 2005.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Wellington, New Zealand
    Posts
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    Hi Steve,

    It's a bit of a long shot but I had similar symptoms shortly after getting my Beat.

    I found that the two bolts that hold the rear axle assembly to the chassis on the drivers side were lose! Must admit I was concerned how the hell they had come loose

    I went over all the others whilst I was there and have had no problems since

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
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    Japan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obsessive View Post
    Hi Steve,

    It's a bit of a long shot but I had similar symptoms shortly after getting my Beat.

    I found that the two bolts that hold the rear axle assembly to the chassis on the drivers side were lose! Must admit I was concerned how the hell they had come loose

    I went over all the others whilst I was there and have had no problems since
    Thanks - I checked around and didn't find anything obvious, so maybe I'll get it to a shop with a lift and some mightier wrenches than I have.


    Past Hondas:
    1960 125cc Honda Benly CB92R
    1964 305cc Super Hawk CB77, the only vehicle I have ever bought new in my life!
    Honda CB160, roadraced as 175cc 1967-1970.
    Honda Lawnmower, bought used in 2003, caught fire and melted in 2005.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    349
    Obsessive, would you mind taking a photo and showing me what 2 bolts you are talking about?
    I have a similar problem on my beat, but i find that rpm, throttle position and temperature all make a difference. Sometime it does it, sometimes it does not.
    Is this called "clutch chatter?"

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Kent
    Posts
    1,499
    To be honest, it is most likely the actual clutch itself.

    Worse when cold???

    The material the clutch friction plate is made off seems quite course and seem to get affected by age and what with the damping springs which become loose and cause rattles.

    Any noise when its judders??

    Any loose or damaged engine mounts would normally cause clonking noises.
    Steve M
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    Its all gone Norfolk!!!
    Now in the Lotus position.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclejemima View Post
    Obsessive, would you mind taking a photo and showing me what 2 bolts you are talking about?
    I have a similar problem on my beat, but i find that rpm, throttle position and temperature all make a difference. Sometime it does it, sometimes it does not.
    Is this called "clutch chatter?"
    One photo as requested.

    As I said it was a long shot and Steve M nails it when he says a loose bolt/engine mount would make more of a "clunk" sound.

    I'd be following Steve's advice and look at the clutch.
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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Japan
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    412
    I assume that changing the clutch is a full-scale engine-out job. I've been reading some on the causes of clutch judder and I guess it is pretty common if not inevitable as a car ages. I tend to make clutches last a long time by minimizing slipping, but maybe I'll start minimizing the judder by doing more slipping (a few people have mentioned that hard usage would burn off oil from the clutch plate that might be a cause of the judder...) . 85,000 kms is a pretty good run for a clutch anyways.


    Past Hondas:
    1960 125cc Honda Benly CB92R
    1964 305cc Super Hawk CB77, the only vehicle I have ever bought new in my life!
    Honda CB160, roadraced as 175cc 1967-1970.
    Honda Lawnmower, bought used in 2003, caught fire and melted in 2005.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    86
    Clutch shudder is usually caused by undulations/warping/uneven wear in the contact surface of the flywheel and/or pressure plate.
    The only way to fix it is to buy a new pressure plate/ clutch assembly and have your flywheel machined.
    It is a common symptom when clutches get old.

    The burned oil on the clutch plate is something that only happens if you have an engine oil leak nearby that gets on the assembly, which is then burned into the surfaces by the friction and heat thus ruining your friction coefficients and creating shudder. This is why when you do a clutch you always change the rear main crankseal!

    Clunking, thats something else.

    It is worth noting that if one of the clutch springs pops out of its captive held position clutch engaugement will be very inconsistant. ie. one moment it will grip instantly, but the next time you go to feather it you might be riding it.

    Looks to me like the Beat clutch is a engine out job

    Got to do mine also. Thrust release bearing is making excessive noise. I wouldn't trust it to go up to the shops at the moment, ready to seize/ break at any moment.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Japan
    Posts
    412
    The judder is just about gone now. I have been slipping it a little more than previously, and maybe the drier weather has something to do with it. Anyway, it no longer is noticeable.

    Several local owners I've met have had problems with the release bearing. Mine is fine but I had a noisy one in another car that never failed catastrophically, but was not pleasant to hear (and worry about).


    Past Hondas:
    1960 125cc Honda Benly CB92R
    1964 305cc Super Hawk CB77, the only vehicle I have ever bought new in my life!
    Honda CB160, roadraced as 175cc 1967-1970.
    Honda Lawnmower, bought used in 2003, caught fire and melted in 2005.

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