-
The definitive dash speaker thread
One dash speaker thread to rule them all!
But seriously, the dash speakers have to be one of the biggest headaches for a budding Beat enthusiast. Every original full range driver in every Beat dash speaker on Earth have been cooked to the point of open circuit it would seem. However the tweeters always continue to soldier on adding to the confusion.
I believe I have finally got to the bottom of the problems and can now offer some explanations and solutions.
Lets start with the factory loom.
I have mentioned it elsewhere but it needs to be in here too.
Each pod has 3 drivers ( 2 full range drivers, and one tweeter).
The middle driver and tweeter in each pod are joined in parallel however the 2nd full range driver in each pod is wired in parallel to the full range, tweeter pair in the opposite pod! so you have 2 drivers ( 1 full range, 1 tweeter) on the left playing left channel but the third driver on the left ( 2nd full range) is playing right channel and vice versa. I assume to create a spatial surround effect?
With this wiring loom setup you can't replace the drivers individually without screwing up your impedences unless you have some sought of crossover/compensation circuit involved.
So its either use the factory loom and drivers or replace the lot with a more conventional setup.
I have chosen to fully replace/ upgrade the dash speaker setup, more on that later...
However if you are keen on experiencing the "Sky speaker" setup as Honda intended it to sound their are some things you need to know.
I recently attempted to order a set of dash speakers through Honda knowing full well they had only recently been re-released, (last year).
Unfortunately when the parts rep got back to me he reported that they were discontinued, What! Oh well, so I started on a full custom build.
However the other day I was trawling the Minikara website when I stumbled upon this which may explain whats going on. These are the new dash speakers.
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
This is what the original dash speakers look like.
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
-
So when I ordered it was based on the original dash speaker part number.
There is no doubt in my mind that the new ones will carry their own part number, but the honda Japan Beat dash speaker and stereo page doesn't seem to list any part numbers?
So good news there if you want OG dash speakers, if you can find a part number they are probably still for sale. That might even be the number on the back of the speaker in the photo.
Whats really interesting is Honda has decided a more serious crossover was in order this time which makes me suspicious that the original speakers may have had a different, perhaps lower impedence, which may well have contributed to their premature demise. I still don't see how you can wire 3 speakers in parallel and end up with a resonable impendence with the only extra component being one capacitor.
Not to mention the drivers themselves are completely different! They seem alot smaller this time around. More advanced so smaller? I don't know about that. Big magnets still seem to rein supreme. Perhaps they are neodyminium magnets? Those are always smaller. They look like they have been wired alot better this time round but looking at the drivers themselves they don't exactly fill me with confidence.
In fact looking at the new ones it looks like the full range woofers themselves are protected from low frequencies this time round. Perhaps thats what killed them all the first time, being feed frequencies beyond the capabilities of the speakers?
Last edited by Beatman; 14-01-2012 at 03:36 AM.
-
In my Minikara travels I uncovered what the Japanese have been doing to replace the blown full range drivers.
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
These are the specs given for an individual driver:Manufacturers................... FOSTER
Impedance c... 8 Ohm
Playback bandwidth … 135 Hz to 20 kHz
Output sound pressure level.......... 83.5 Ｄ B
入力…………………… 5 / 11 W
Aperture diameter of baffle.......... 61 Mm + agri
重量…………………… 320 g
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
From what I understand these speakers still require cutting of the dash to fit as they are unnessasarily magnetically shielded which is why the magnets are so large. Note each full range driver has a RMS power rating of only 5 watts, I don't have an RMS for the tweeter hes using but we can assume its only going to see 5 watts max as its power input will be limited by the the other two drivers.
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
So I guess we can safely assume 15 watts RMS per dash speaker is about all this setup will handle.
Specs for a whole pod will be something like this:
Power handling:15 watts RMS
Freq response : 135hz to 20khz
-
Wow, talk about your massive hangovers. Back to finish what I started, still a bit shattered but!
Before I stumbled on all this I had already sourced myself the best drivers I could find available to the english speaking public.
The requirements I was trying to achieve was a better quality sound then the standard speakers but hopefully without the need to cut the dash to fit them.
Unfortunately you cant win them all and a bit of dash cutting is required but its no biggy.
http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/301481.pdf
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Now the way I have done this is to fit component speakers to the doors and their respective tweeters in the pods. The two full range drivers in each pod will operate as the front channel while the tweeters are run as part of the door speakers ie rear channel. This way now the least capable speakers in the system can be individually adjusted via the fader and all our impedences are legit.
I gotta say I was blown away by the sound quality of the Pioneer component speakers I fitted. Single handedly and accidently created the most high fidility sounds I have ever heard! I have not heard the system with the new dash speakers yet either!
Its worth mentioning that the component woofers fit in the door because they are 17cm oversized and came with a special mounting spacer so it could still use the the original 16cm size mounting hole.
By removing the factory metal mounting spacer and fitting the new one the speakers now fit perfectly with about a 5mm gap between the the back of the speaker and the window when its down. Also the door trim fits over the front with no contact either.
Anyway... these Visaton speakers seem to be the cream of the crop. Higher power handling then other drivers with a lower frequency response.
Each driver is rated at 8 watts RMS to give a grand total of 16 watts per pod which is pretty good considering each pod has lost its tweeter to share the load.
I shall set up a "how to" to explain in detail the fittment of Visaton drivers to your pods.
Last edited by Beatman; 16-01-2012 at 12:32 AM.
-
nice write up, having head aches already!
may look into replacing the dash speakers whilst everything will be out as well then?
-
Thanks. Yeah you might as well do them while its out, removing the dash is not something you want to have to do more then you need to. You risk scratching and damaging things everytime you do it, plus its a hassle.
-
so before i click on too many products 
am i somewhere right with this layout?
4 ohm comps for doors with tweeters fitted in pods? ( i'm assuming crossover is already fitted into these?)
2 x 10cm for each pod as per your Visaton's @ 8 ohms each (wired in parallel?)
-
ok, so after mucho looking , looks like the crossovers are a separate unit unless i've missed something. another couple of boxes to fit then
-
Wow, very nice! I wish I knew how to make computers do stuff!
Yep you got it, only diff between my setup and your diagram is my speakers are running straight off the head unit.
The components came with external crossovers that I have attached under the dash. I am running all factory wiring loom for the components apart from splicing in the crossover at the plug just before it enters the door. That way my sub amp is still connected ( factory hardwired to door speaker wires) and the wire passing into the door is properly protected by the factory rubber tube thingy.
Worth noting make sure you get the positive and minuses round the right way or it will sound completely rubbish. I only mention this as I was caught out myself as the pioneer components I was using had the wire marked with a line as positive where as every other experience I've had in audio the wire with a line on it is normally negative.
PS. The Visaton speaker size is 6.5cm ( based on cone size) don't ask for 10's!
-
Yep two 8 ohms in parallel.
Careful you order the right speaker there are many with similar codes. This was the best one. FRS 7 S 8 OHM
Great how it can handle 100 degrees C, perfect for dash installations!
Here's the "How to" http://www.u-ukhbc.co.uk/vbb/showthread.php?t=3338
-
well progress made today, dry & bit sunny so stripped out dash, carpets last bits of wiring.
will pull pods apart tonight & maybe shopping as well 
other stuff going on as well, new thread needed sometime next week
-
This is a good time to paint that rusty steel tube under the dash! Rust breeds rust!
Here is where I mounted one of the crossovers, (its wrapped in foam).
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
-
Nice that should stop any rattles. I managed to fit both of my crossovers below the stereo. Good to see you're sorting all the little details out whilst you're at it.
I'd suggest re-wiring the seat belt warning buzzer to a park light buzzer whilst the dash is out. There is a post about it somewhere here.
Last edited by Obsessive; 20-01-2012 at 10:27 PM.
-
Do you know what the mounting depth is for the original drivers?
I'm looking into some replacement as well, but I'd rather not cut up my dash
-
25mm depth.
cutting the dash isn't too great an issue though is it?
you won't see the holes as pod covers it.
when i test fit, if only a small adjustment needed i may go mental & try a heatgun, localised, to ease plastic away from magnets. will try & find a similar plastic to experiment with
i've taken Beatman's way & ordered the Visaton FRS 7 but also FRS 5 as well.
only 8 watt as against 15, similar depth but looks to have a smaller magnet diameter which may or may not fit without cutting?
-
-
My dash is covered in alcantara suede...i don't want to cut it up
-
The original drivers are a mere 20mm deep. You won't find any 2.5 inch speakers that deep, trust me I've tried!
You can find 2 inch speakers that thin but then they arn't wide enough to fill the hole. The FRS 5 won't fill the hole and being that deep it will mean the dash will still need to be cut to clear the bracket.
I thought about the heat and mould method but I'm glad I didn't go with that in the end. With cutting holes you can see more clearly whats touching what. With re-moulding everytime you test fit you won't be able to see what is causing interferance. There are quite a few points that touch it can be a bit frustrating I can vouch for that!
Also its worth mentioning you only have limited space to play with even with cutting the dash as on the drivers side you have the steel body of the car quite close underneath.
If you got a fancy covered dash that you don't want to cut then the only proper soloution is the new type 2 factory dash speakers.
Unless you can find 2.5 inch wide, 20mm deep drivers but I'm guessing they are custom made for the Beat only and nothing else out there happens to be similar enough to be any use. That's how I ended up doing the full upgrade, it's all or nothing!
Last edited by Beatman; 26-01-2012 at 01:37 PM.
-
You think these would work?
http://dls.se/en/car/prod.html?produkt=en_160
There are two models, one with 15mm depth, other with 26mm depth
Also found visaton version
http://www.teamaudio.fr/en/catalog/p...hm/category/8/
Last edited by maiku; 26-01-2012 at 10:19 PM.
-
possibly but quick look says :
Mounting hole82 mm (3,23") Mounting depth15 mm ( 0,59") Outer diameter100 mm (3,94")
hole for OEM is 70 mm, not sure if they would fit even with cutting?
assume outer dia. is for grille, obviously not needed.
they would also have to be wired as per factory, dash would have to come out anyway, possibly get to pass side but driver side too much in way to get to
Posting Permissions
- You may not post new threads
- You may not post replies
- You may not post attachments
- You may not edit your posts
-
Forum Rules
Reply With Quote
